Gm hydro 10 speed. We Specialize In: GM LS Conversions Engine & Trans Combo Kits Unique Ready to Run Engines Have a question? So if there are any possible ways to upgrade the RPM Level 6 4L70E in my 416 CI Trailblazer, the 4L80E in my Silverado with a LS2 with heavily worked and milled 243s, Ported and polished Fast LSXRT 102mm intake, and the Caprice PPV I am looking for the right one. The customer approves a teardown. Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. Thats pretty much all thats to it. Beginning in 2010, all 2500 and 3500 Express / Savana with a 4.8L or 6.0L engine used the 6L90 transmission. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. Its the best of both worlds. TSB 18-NA-026 Transmission fluid leak Unlike the 4L60E and 4L80E, the 6L80 is not always referred to as with the E on the end because its been over 25 years since the last non electronic GM transmission has been in production. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. RPO Code MF6 The 1-piece aluminum case houses a slim 260mm 10L80 torque converter inside the integrated bell housing. The original first three gear ratios are in fact still the same as the TH-400. The HydraMatic can be adapted to the popular Jeep transfer cases, including the: Essentially all factory GM 4wd applications available with an OEM configured 6L80 have adapters and transfer cases that are prohibitively long for a Jeep, and transfer cases whose sizes and gearing fall short of desirable for most Jeep applications. Gears Magazine Your email address will not be published. Power Pack Only, for Power Hub | 195756-7754. However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. So is the 10L90 entirely different or does it just have stronger parts? Renew Subscription With this in mind, there are (3) major groups of failure management strategies that are used when certain diagnostic trouble codes are present. Before we get started, lets cover the basics. They are listed as Type A, Type B, and Type C diagnostic trouble codes. The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. Thought's? Some Tahoe and Yukon HD 6.0L, not hybrid, may also have this transmission but most have 6L80 or a 10 speed 10L80. Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. Click Get a Free Estimate for an unbeatable price on a replacement remanufactured transmission. Concerns can range from any of the following: These drivability concerns can be mistaken for transmission malfunctions. The taper may exist so that the clutch surface goes flat when the cover is welded together were not sure. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. How quickly time passes by. Its a longitudinal transmission (thats what the L in 6L80E stands for). The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. TH350 High Performance Transmissions / 850 Hp Full Race, TH400 High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage VI, TH200-4R High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage III och Full Race, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4l65E High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage V, 4L80E / 4L85E High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E High Performance Transmissions / Standard - 1000Hp, Speed Potential Calculator for Ring Gear and Pinion Changes, Engine Alternatives. And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process. 4. A sectioned image of the 4L60-E TMBX and 6L80, 6L90 JMBX (Figure 3) shows the external profiles of the respective front covers are very similar. Muncie M20 4-speed longitudinal wide ratio manual transmission made by GM at their Muncie, Indiana factory. This transmission makes an excellent conversion transmission due to its adaptability into most Jeeps longer than CJ5s. Click Here to Email our Sales & Tech Staff 888-748-4655 Local: 330-965-7146 International: 001-330-652-5855 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm EST Sat-Sun: Closed TH400, TH200-4R, TH700-R4, 4L60, 4L60E (without converter), 6L80E Fluid capacity with 258 mm converter, 6L80E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter, 6L90E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter. The subject is a rather common electrical fault that may occur on the PCS line pressure solenoid circuit, which results in max line pressure. The Ford 10R80 is a new 10-speed, rear wheel drive transmission that's available in several models, beginning in 2017. Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. As to length, this transmission is 26-1/4" long. While its true that, many times, the root cause of a converter failure lies in the transmission, in this case, there is ample evidence that the opposite is true: an inherent torque converter problem might be the root cause of a lot of the transmission failures. While converter failures are not uncommon with other transmission families, you are thinking that this is really becoming a pattern for the 6L80, 6L90. About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. Fourth 1.80 or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. The Nightmare on Oak Street: A hunt for 4L30E electrical problems How. But tall highway gearing arent the only way that this transmission maximizes efficiency. While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. Production Began 2017 We pride ourselves in staying at the forefront of our industry, technology, research & development and our commitment to you, our customer. Seventh 1.00 General 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter : 18-NA-355 Special Tools DT-52263 Transmission Fluid Exchange Kit: DT-52263-1 Block Assembly (includes fluid drain While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. Thought's? For the 4L60-E TMBX, the pistons are .115" thick, and for the 6L80, 6L90 JMBX, the pistons are significantly thicker at .150". Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature. There are too many differences between in communication protocols and renders the transmission nonfunctional. Grade braking and clutch line pressure (for greater holding power) are additionally great features that are activated by Tow / Haul mode on the truck platforms. Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. 3-Bolt Adapter Flange Yoke Kit. If there are worn valves or faulty inputs or controls, its easy to see how the clutch could start to shudder and quickly fail. It's a longitudinal transmission (that's what the L in 6 L 80E stands for). So the service life is limited, and the warranty will only last 1-2 years. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! 4L60E (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 4L60E / 4L65E (w/ removable bellhousing) All LS1 Type, 4L80E 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), 6L80E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), 6L90E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), Splines (output shaft)Pan Bolts (number of), Transmission Fluid Capacity (see also capacity of fluid in the converter here). TAP-2000 is a floor mounted shifter with Tap up Tap Down for GM 6/8L80/90E transmissions. 2018 YUKON DENALI 64K ON THE MILES HAS A CLICKING NOISE AT A IDLE LIKE A CRACKED FLYWHEEL OR SOMETHING BOUNCING IN THE PAN CHEVY PUT NEW EXHAUST ON IT THINKING IT WAS IN THE CONVERTER ALSO PUT A NEW PUMP IN THE TRANS THIS SOUND IS NOT THE SAME EVERY TIME SOUNDS LIKE A BOUNCING BOLT SINCE THE PUMP WAS IN STALLED NOW SEEMS TO OLY MAKE NOISE WHEN WARMED UP MY SON IS A TRANSMISSION MAN HE SAYS IT A SOUND THEY MAKE WHEN THEY ARE SUCKING AIR NOT SURE ON THAT I WAS A MECHANIC FOR MANY MANY YEARS CANT FIGURE THIS OUT NOR CAN GM ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ? The 6 speed takes a fair amount of trans tunnel work and my Holley Dominator ECU can't control it. Read more columns from our Shift Pointers series here. Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. Im with you on AFM is crap. This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . You can scribe numbers on them from 1-6 if you choose for a quick reminder of their location. The 10L90 and 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmissions are on exchange through GM PQC as part of our ongoing quality improvement efforts to assist Engineering with product concern identification effective on 02/13/16. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. Your email address will not be published. 6L80E / 6L90E 4-5-6 Clutch. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). This transmission is out of a Tur. What all needs to be done to change it from four-wheel-drive to 2 Wheel Dr? Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. Nov 26 . Lets talk about some of the concerns and fixes we have been seeing. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? If youre having problems with your 10L80 youre going to want the most economical solution. So my suggestion is to not subject the lockup to that amount of abuse. Quick 4 Stand-Alone Transmission Control System The 10L80 transmission is a 10-speed longitudinal automatic transmission that was designed to operate near the efficiency of a CVT while improving fuel economy in GM high-horsepower vehicles highlighted by the Camaro, Suburban, Tahoe, and Escalade. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). We are High Performance Transmission Builders Bolt and gasket inlcuded. At this point, the converter rebuilder is faced with either finding another core that he hopes will have good components or purchasing a Sonnax forged cover GM-CC-13 and forged piston GM-DA-17P. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E In 1987, he assumed the role of editor for Hot Rod magazine before returning to his first love of writing technical stories. Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. None of the above categories describe me. One common 6l80 issue due to design flaws include premature clutch failure. Indirectly affects TCC control and shift control. You might run into a lack of valve body repair options. The transmission will bolt up but will not work since the TCM, Tehcm and BCM are application specific and cannot interchanged. The stator shaft support housing comes with these gears as one assembly. But the replacement of this assembly requires new bolts. GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. When its enabled at low speeds the exhaust tone becomes muffled, the AFM valves clatter open and closed, v4 vibration and increased injector noise is nothing but annoying, especially with a convertible. But once he had the parts and the job was complete, the noise issue was resolved, confirming the cause to be the idler gear spinning around the ball bearings outer race. Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. I am making a great deal of changes to the truck from a Procharged 5.3 to a head, cam, Fast LSXRT intake LS2 on nitrous before we build a 3.9 bore and stroke twin turbo 372ci setup. All Rights Reserved. So you would need to begin with a 2008 or newer Express to be able to convert from a 4L80 to a 6L80 / 6L90. OPTION 2- The newer and still somewhat mysterious 6L80e has a very enticing ratio selection (4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, 0.67) that should allow the engine to stay within it's "power band" resulting in more usable power. RATIOS 4.70, 2.99, 2.15, 1.80, 1.52, 1.28, 1.00, .85, .69, .64. It is a dog in the summer time. The band number is printed on the solenoids in the location shown and will be a 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 (Figure 3). The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. During the inspection of the transmission, Brain noticed that the idler gear could be easily lifted off of the bearing with just the use of his fingers (see figures 2 and 3). Shift the transmission to Reverse. The 8L90E is an 8 speed automatic transmission developed by General Motors and introduced for the 2015 Model year. (incl. A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). Ninth 0.69 Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. document.write("- "+yr); Learn how your comment data is processed. Its only about a 3/4-inch band around the inside circumference of the converter. Our transmission shop specializes in rear wheel drive Ford & GM high performance transmissions. This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. This is a normal and desired behavior. or Best Offer . Reactions: me32. Commanded engine torque: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? Every modern GM vehicle has one of these sheets in its glove compartment. Wait 2 seconds. Do you know does the aftermarket have a fix? The thought is that the bowl shape of the TMBX is better suited towards a more even apply, and because its thinner, the TMBX piston has the ability to flex and better conform to the front cover. Each clutch is controlled by a corresponding shift solenoid A-F. August 8, 2022. The 6L80, adapted and ready for a Jeep Dana 300 and the Jeep New Process transfer cases. See how the ratios have swapped places? We had to use a spacer from Advanced Adapters but otherwise they are the same. Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions, https://www.delphi.com/dynamic-skip-fire-1. This is both a return to and a departure from previous automotive control systems in the industry in that earlier electronic transmissions used a separate control module, later to be integrated into the Engine Control Modules which were thus termed Powertrain Control Modules. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. At part pedal, when acceleration is brisk, single-step upshifts would result in very frequent shift events (a very short time in gear). Objectively, it is a fairly simple repair: simply remove the transmission pan, remove the valve body, unbolt the TEHCM from the valve body and install the new one. Hi Jeff, 2024 Mustang Prices Are Out, Dark Horse Is . I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. The complaints may be difficult to duplicate. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. 8L80E Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. Sonnax highlights two product lines for helping with heavy solenoids for GM/Ford 10L/10R and 9T series transmissions. Theres also a unique internal thermal bypass that allows the transmission to warm up faster, reducing fuel consumption on cold starts. But, GM had been in transmission limbo, so to speak, needing a modern transmission to fill the duty gap between the excellently versatile4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants)and the Allison transmissions. But in the 6L80 JMBX, we started to look very closely at the converter itself to see if we could determine a root cause. vehicle weights. This is a normal and desired behavior. The 10L80 moniker is decoded. Its valuable to know that the debris you are seeing in the pans of all of those 6L80 and 6L90 units is very often from converter failure. I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. *$3,245 does not include any Hard Part damage, Torque Converter or TCM/ECM tuning. First, check for updated programming for the TCM strategy. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. $ 158.00 Select options. SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. Made of billet aluminum with included swivel -6 AN fittings with 3/8" barbs. Dissecting the E-Ray, the First Hybrid AWD Vette. Members Do you think that I might pick up a few more hundredths if I switch the lock on say when I hit second? and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. 6L80/6L90/8L90/10L90 AN Transmission Cooler Manifold Our Price: $150.00 Out of stock We now offer a convenient AN trans cooler manifold solution for the 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, and 10L90 transmission. The 4L80E is a very large, heavy transmission but, like its original TH-400 cousin, it can absorb and transmit an enormous amount of engine torque. Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. Im not tuned ( not yet anyway), however, if I knew then what I know today, I probably would have went for the M6. You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. It features a dry weight of ~195 lbs. As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. This version is 1-3/8" longer and about 25% of its internal parts differ. Ford describes their two different shift strategies as single and double step shifts. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. yr=d.getFullYear(); Fifth 1.52 Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. The 6L80 is a modular transmission, featuring removable bellhousings and tailhousings for interchangeability with the GM 90 Degree engines and other potential engines in the future. Chevrolet, Buick & GM Engines into the Jeep Ford 1.8L - 2.5L "Pinto" Engines into the Jeep 4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants). RECALLS! It is a heavy duty version of the 6L80 six speed automatic with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total and a strengthened output gearset that uses wider gears than the 6L80. JT. Lots of good information I do have one question That no one seems to be able to give a good answer to. only) '72-'79, Small Block V8, Gen. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a36 spline. If the power circuit to the transmission solenoids fails open, then all solenoids are failed electrically off. - Scope testing the Ford 10R80. And you are correct the converters in these units are experiencing a high percentage of failure and are more problematic than normal. Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission, providing for the best fuel economy. But in order to make this work properly, they began by making the overall First gear ratio deeper. How quickly time passes by. The overdrive ratio thats added is 0.75:1. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a, J Series Trucks & Wagons, (I6 Autostart / Autostop function disabled (if equipped), Transmission Adaptive Pressure Control and adaptive shift values Frozen, High line pressure (harsh shifts and engagements). Thats a great question. should check for clearance. As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. With 10 forward gears to choose from, the 10L80 transmission is able to reduce the fuel consumption of a high horsepower engine. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. Third 2.15 For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable.