The best replacement for R134a is R1234yf, while R12 refrigerant replacement was R134a. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. Table 1 summarizes the technical characteristics of three potential R134a alternatives. The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. I'm having the same concern. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. Lasers don't do well on vent temps, a stick thermometer is better in that application. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. 34 in 70 series w/ R12 in 100+ Tucson, AZ summer heat w/ hd-t, w/ 13B-T is was unbearable about 31 at vent w/ R12. 1) Warm Air From Vents. Bohica, I appreciate your help with this. 5. The condenser water inlet temperature and flow rate are controlled with the use of a . Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. B. Just had knee surgery yesterday, so I"M not exactly hopping around too well. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? "Jerky Locker" LMAO I am using that one in the future!Florida = BUGS! 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. Have a look in the FAQ Section, and look for "Fan clutches & testing them". Since there is only about a 10% difference between R-12 and R-134a, the expansion valve being self-compensating really doesn't make that much difference. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! If the water valve is not closing all the way you will have re-heating of the cabin air.The cabin blower was not exactly a powerhouse - it was rated at 200w. What is a T/C?4. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. Osuagwu Solomon is a certified mechanic with over a decade of experience in the mechanic garage, and he has over five years of experience in the writing industry. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. With the knowledge of the differences, youll be able to draw a comparison between R12 vs R134a efficiency. With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. I don't have the FSM matrix handy for that 123.123, but a 123.133 shows a test rpm of 2,000 - and vent temps between 54f & 66f at 91f to 95f ambient. Look deep into the fins. had writing on the side that said R134a. The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. But R22 is almost equally damaging. . There is more to check.The evaporator must be clean as well as the condensor - was this a smoker's car?You should check the water control valve for the heater core. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type. Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the amount of R134a used. With R-12, 30 is 28.4psi and 40 is 36.9psi, for a difference of 8.5psi. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. They plug all the time. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. There is only a temperature switch on these cars as far as I recall, and it just switches on the aux fan. You can also check the Aux fan in your case. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. It is possible I have 10 ounces (250 ml) in the system. Is there a graph? and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. Can I use the one for the R-12? Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. I had a pair on my SAAB that seemed ok - but new ones ran 20% faster!Your best clue to airflow issues is a 60 mph test. Yes, this was a smokers car. I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. The original rubber a/c hose lines in your car will leak out R12 through the hoses lining. This may be the source of your oil confusion. A York oil capacity is listed as "6.5 to 9.6 ounces". Bookmarks: Digg; del . Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. Answer: OK, I'll bite. 5. What is needed? The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. How about evacing 1 pound of refrig from the system, and then putting 1 lb of pure R12 back in? Yep, definately not a meat locker. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. So to keep things simple and to avoid controversy and politics we have R134a. gital control scheme. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. I would suggest you do stay away from R-134a since with the hot gas bypass of your system (if it is to be just as the original) extremes of temperature and pressure will be very hard on your compressor and the rest of the system. June 21, 2022 difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . R-134a XV for R-134a use. Then, subtract that result by 0.25 pounds to get the proper amount of R134a charge. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. Any suggestions, or do you need to know the hi/lo readings? Also, R134a cylinders are light-blue in color. This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. There are three different refrigerants officially sanctioned by the EPA for automotive usage: r-12, r-. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. Vent temperatures slowly go down to around 50F with hi speed driving. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. I recommend replacing the expansion valve when you do the swap. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." 3 ounces? The oil used in R12 and R134a are different and not compatible. The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. I am ordering new parts, and planning to convert my system to R-134a. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." . It may take a couple of tries to get things really clean.The laser is usually close on clean surfaces, but I prefer a T/C. I'm just trying to help you avoid headaches in the long run. The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. Also, they are mostly used in refrigeration and automotive air conditioning systems. Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. (The .133 is the 300D Turbo).So, what does your compressor look like?B. R12 is used in several applications like low temperature, medium temperature, and high-temperature applications. Besides, R134a refrigerant was manufactured after R12 was banned to help reduce the harshness of the old chemical (R12) on the ozone layer. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. It didn't seem too dirty though - I don't think it is the problem, but I could be wrong. Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). I'll report back on the aux fan on performance next. You are indeed 20% out of the OEM spec for cooling. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. First, differences in physical properties: 1, insoluble R12 compressor oil is used (to reduce the lubricant) 2, dissolved sealing materials are used (resulting in refrigerant leakage) 3, easy to damp (so easy to internal . When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance. The smoking question & vent airflow indicate that the evaporator is fairly clean - and you are aware of the importance of that.The heater valve stops the flow, but there is always some conduction heating. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . Replace the drier with a drier that has a desiccant that is R134a compatible, use new R134a o-rings. By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. That is for the compressor, drier, expansion valve and condenser. You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. The expansion valve is designed so that the temperature of the refrigerant at the evaporator outlet must have 8 to 12F (4 to 7C) of superheat before more refrigerant is allowed to enter the evaporator. ing the expansion valve, a maximum opening superheat of 7F, and a standard factory air test superheat setting. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. Heres some important advice Whenever you notice your R12 refrigerant is leaking, turn off all flames and open the doors so it can escape to the open atmosphere. compressor, condenser, evaporator and expansion valve are specifically designed for use with R134a. R-134a is widely believed to be the most acceptable R12 substitute. Make sure to get the R12 EXP valve if that is the way you go. Hope this helps. Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. Replacement expansion valve for R134a or R12 A/C refrigerants, with O-ring connections. Next I'll jumper the aux fan. Helical and Serpentine coils. Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. sparkee said: Thanks for the Service Bulletin. R12 can move more heat than r134 so when it isn't very hot and the system isn't maxed out you wont be able to tell the difference but when its 110 out and the inside is 140 R12 will cool the cabin temp faster. And I lied about the compressor switches on this car - there are 2 switches on the drier - a temp and a pressure switch. The good thing is that after you convert to R134 you can top off the system easily and cheaply. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. The aux fan seems to be working fine - it switches on occassionally. An extra half ounce? Any ideas from the info above? I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. Inasmuch as R134a has a global warming potential thats over 1000 times more threatening than carbon dioxide, its better than R12. But, what is considered a good temperature differential across the condensor? Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? Expansion Valves Catalog E-1, July 2012. At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. Automotive Replacement Expansion Valves & Parts; Industrial & Scientific; Customer Reviews. This is not to say that one of these small retro-fit kits cant be used, however to be used wisely. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. . Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". R1234yf. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . We ALWAYS want to know the pressure readings! Paul:It is never a waste of my time to chat with someone that understands the problem, and wants to fix it. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. A. Pressure/temperature plot of R134a vs. R12 is shown in figure 1. Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Any advice appreciated. The aux fan didn't switch on though and I didn't check the high side temperature. Its cylinders are colored white. Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. The experimental values of C.O.P.H obtained with the R134a/ester charge were 20.2% The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. The current expansion valve is FF - 1/4 - C. Is it neccesary to replace this valve? If there is a resource I should read first to save you time, let me know. ambulance tailgate conversion I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. Depending on which circuit diagram fits your car (cough, no vin list exists) you have either one or two switches controlling the aux fan. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . 3) A/C Compressor Always On. 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. But I don't want to waste your time. To ensure the right charge, you must fill the new system with between 75 and 85% of the factory-set capacity for optimal cooling. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. Refrigerators generally utilize R22, R32, or 410A-based coolants as their cooling agent. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. With tube & fin condensors in MVAC applications there is never "too much" airflow. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. R404a for freezing of product. |. Hmmmm. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration.