Typically if you can accomplish only 5 such improvements, it would be hard for your manager not to consider you for next step. At the end of the day its about $$ and in reality levels mean nothing if your getting paid crap. Aspects of an L63 Contributor: some random aspects that come to my mind beyond our CSPs: When I write all of this, I think back to an older piece by Joel Spolsky talking about Rosh Gadol contributors. Unless you know for sure that your boss's answer is an immediate "Absolutely!" Will a team that needs exactly the skills and interests that you have pass on you because of some HR guideline? I made sure I was the guy you wanted to call when the server crashed in the lab with a crazy callstack and no repro.Second, OWN the features. This can play a bigger role even than how many times you broke the build, caused a bug, etc. There were times when I was promoted more slowly than I probably could have been, but I am very happy with where I am now, and I am still growing. Sometimes leaving MS is good. At the beginning of each FY, I always asked, "I want to get Exceeded this year. Up to that point the "what" you accomplish can get you pretty far and you get some wiggly room on the how. So far, I haven't been successful. I made sure I was the fastest, most efficient, and best bug fixer. Go and restart in another org and dig through their historical biz and people stability during your informationals. And when the time comes, putting you up for a promotion to L63 is the first time your boss will be challenged by your skip-level and by your Aunt and Uncles (your boss's peers) about one of your promotions. A great internal tool to help you sync your self perception with those around you is available internally at http://hrweb/US/CareerDev/folder/ms360process.htm. Levels are all about perception.I know devs who are underlevelled and devs who are over-levelled. Seriously - if you wave a competitor's offer in my face what have you told me? If youve been at Level 62 longer than about 3 years MS may not be the best fit for you and you should probably be considering other options.kc. "a HR manager" is acceptable if HR is meant to convey a spoken "a human resources manager" rather than a spoken "an aich arr manager".haven't should have an apostrophe, yes. Any idea on when is this going to change? Show me you can do this and want to learn more and you'll be on my radar as a possibility.6. 3. Does anyone know what the typical salary increase, measured in percentage, is for going from 62 to 63? The problem is you can't tell if you've done something to piss him off or if he's doing it because he has to. After all, if you think you are already ready, and your manager doesn't, there is probably some way you can improve that you don't understand -- this is something you want to figure out.6. If you don't have a manager like that or the manager cannot/will not set clear commits/accountabilities - when the freeze lifts, time for you to look at new areas where you can bring something to the table. Heck, we would be lucky if many can do even that well. Just pick one Job id, prepare for it and then go for internal. After that, I was given a team that was in trouble quality wise 6 months before shipping. I know to a certain degree that's all of us - but, if you're dealing with 2-3 a year or every other year then you need to get out. They don't care who gets the credit, and they fight for good reviews for their people. "2) Peel the onion. It varies greatly from manager to skip.The hardest point for me to bear is that I am young, capable of doing so much more, and absolutely dying to do more. You forgot "never ask for a promotion".The one other thing that helped me go from L59 through >L64 was an absolute dedication to the strongest leaders, one level at a time. These guys are typically outcome of recent hiring sprees. I spent 5 years on level 61. You broke the trust cycle so don't expect anything else. You don't deliver products on your own -- you're usually building one system, one set of components that together make one successful (or unsuccessful) product.You can always, always find ways that make yourself, your manager, and your immediate team much more successful. Let's Hear it for the Girl! But that's kind of the point -- simplify your approach. Any idea on when is this going to change? What now? This is where I agree with Mini regarding taking MSFT back to the good ol' lean, mean, and efficient company we enjoyed. Get a free, personalized salary estimate based on today's job market. And your list of bullet points on qualities of a 63-er is pretty much the short list I have boiled it down to. They took credit for work done by others (#2 helps).Seriously, they only way to separate the wheat from the chaff in this company is to allow to interview without notifying the manager. Maybe everybody's aware of being "in lockdown" and keeping their heads down? You should be able to show the path to a goal, especially to collections of people who do not report to you. No one is born an experienced mgr and even the most experienced mgrs are not perfect. If you're not there yet and your boss was asked that question by your skip-level-boss, what is your boss's answer? Within the comments, I hope to elicit advice that follows up on what I start here, and maybe even contradicts it. Unless you're an asshat, in which case see mini's comment about slapping yourself around and listening to what other's think about you.And in those huge orgs with all the noise it is really easy for folks to rest and *ahem* vest, so you are overlooked by default.The key as mini and others have stated is finding the tech and team you love and everything flows from there (because you will be so excited you will go home and work another 4 hours every night examining customer feedback, competitive products, etc. If you are considering leaving your team (or Microsoft) but think you could be persuaded to stay, be careful about how you present this to your manager. No manager can bail you out of "bad brand jail" past L625. Some related job titles areMarketing Director salaries with median pay of $163,348,Senior Consultant salaries with median pay of $123,519,Senior Product Manager salaries with median pay of $193,845,Managing Director salaries with median pay of $333,006. Got lucky on that one!!!! If you find a boss who likes the kind of work you can do, follow him/her wherever they go. I can vouch for the efficacy of this mantra.MS definitely does a good enough job on career progression and offering diverse options. Being a TS can work the same way. So yes, Mini's list should get you to 63 anywhere. Thank goodness for this blog, where MS employees are free to talk about their personal struggles, unlike "other" blogs that censor/prohibit such discussions, so that they can live in some fantasy land and avoid dealing with the real issues. If youve capped out at Level 62 then MS is probably not a great fit for you. Promotion to 63 happened to me 2 years ago when I helped ship Office 2007. The current distribution is simply pathetic.. you need to hit the pause button for one big time-out regarding where you are, where you're going, and what needs to change. Results-focused: they are focused on getting great results and don't entwine their ego to particular solutions. For example, see http://www.intropsych.com/ch07_cognition/learning_curve.html. He himself is principal for quite sometime. A) What is the market facing title for L66 and above levels at Microsoft?B) What is the equivalent at Microsoft of Amazon L7?C) Rank the below titles at Microsoft in decreasing order of seniority: e.gPrincipal > Senior Director > Director > Senior Manager > Partner, Go to company page Obviously, this is advice that you may not apply during the current hiring freeze, but keep it on your mind for the future.- At times the focus on the level may not be the most important strategy in the long term. Third, working on that weakness DAILY (but not exclusively) until they overcome it. * Sell yourself: I know it sounds odd and contradictory. Its difficult to transfer to a new position because at a high level, what group is going to take you on to a new position you have no experience in. L66 would be Principal or Sr Director. If so, then you're going to have a hard time finding senior IC spots anywhere. It was then that things ground to a halt. L63 guys are supposed to influence their entire skip level org. Here is a nice place to start :-)http://guestgame.com/. It doesnt matter if the system is fair or not. Do a search for people in those groups in NYC area and check their status to see who is hiring. If you're off-path, you can turn it around. Even with all good intentions, they can even be ineffective mentors (although I still highly recommend the mentoring program, as long as you change your mentor every year). Also, its important to keep in mind that it is impossible to provide a perfect definition of any level. This slighlty contradicts some of the other posts. Leadership, for instance. Experienced Operations & Project Manager with a demonstrated history of working in the financial services industry. If you want to succeed at Microsoft (or anywhere else where you have a boss), the most important thing you can do is figure out exactly what your management wants from you and then make sure you deliver it in spades.Junior people often make the mistake of thinking this means "I will do my job to the best of my ability" and then they go off and work really REALLY hard at things their management doesn't find nearly as important as they do and so come review time these folks are *shocked* to hear that all of their blood, sweat and tears did not make the impression they'd hoped. So one big part is do good work, but another is don't do bad work.I think it's a very good idea to ask for a promotion. It inspired me to write the following dissertation on the subject in hopes that it will be helpful. "Sad but true. I take some of the blame for not managing my career more directly, but no one should be offered a promotion when they leave--if they are valuable, let them know before hand! But if you start when you think you are ready and work with your manager toward the goal, you'll get there. Proficient in product delivery, business & cost transformation, supplier management, client relationships and growth opportunities Working extensively at senior board level to deliver high value . Microsoft, Go to company page However L64 takes some time and L65 is very difficult. How long do people usually sit at L62 in MCS? For me, it will take some serious job switching to get there. That clarity may not always result in a promotion on the exact timeline you envision but if you're honest with yourself and have a good manager it really helps.I'm a 13 year Microsoft employee who lived through the bad old days of crappy managers. Great post Mini. He won't answer your questions on what is going on or you get vague answers.All of this in most cases is probably directives from HR. "This is the lament of every person in every big company everywhere it's usually a combination of truth (most of us are capable of more than the roles we're currently filling) and hubris (if I had a nickel for ever junior person who over-estimated what they were capable of I'd be retired). Yes, "soft skills" count. You can each help each other.I've gone from 59 to 65 so far, but maybe what worked for me won't work for you. Sad but true Mini et al addressed this with the descriptions of the distinguishing traits you need to develop and demonstrate. That's why Microsoft is pissing away the monopoly that you inherited from IBM. But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work. This helps us sort answers on the page. In my org the cut is 70% on promos. Like many technology companies, Microsoft uses levels to indicate seniority for employees, including engineers. Answer to second question is never ever explicitly try to make yourself known to hierarchy above your manager. weeks to find another position within the company, otherwise they are laid off.Given 6 weeks to find a position now is a suicide (since most groups can't hire due to the freeze). It sounds trite, but it's true. They just plain resonate. And how do you represent yourself as a leader and influencer when you are in a room with 6 other people vying for the exact same thing? Alternate to your left hand appropriately when tired. It's also a well-known fact that there is a disparity in levels between Office and now Sinofsky's Windows and the rest of the company, especially below 65 level.About asking your manager and getting their feedback, we're assuming that managers are capable of giving candid feedback. ?I work in MSN and we still have no way to know the levels of our peers. Let's slim down Microsoft into a lean, mean, efficient customer pleasing profit making machine! I basically lost 5 years of growth due to a bad manager and my own unwillingness to own my career. Your commitments should already provide you with milestones to set as your goals. You know you want to get to that other bar, but that chasm in between is fraught with risk. This means there are 24 distinct job levels at Microsoft. Strategy and Product Leader for an omni-channel team encompassing blended physical-digital experiences that combine personalized services with customer relationship strengthening across 400- centers. He is a very, very smart guy.For many people, what made them successful as a level 62 IC will kill them as a level 62 manager. I asked them direct questions about what I needed to do to get the next promotion. It is possible to get promoted out of a desire to be promoted. Think Locally: remember three years back when we talked about the book Corporate Confidential? The estimated additional pay is $257,304 per year. Absolutely not Definitely yes 3 1 David Lean Worked at Microsoft (company) (1990-2009) Upvoted by Jack Schofield , Computer journalist who has covered Microsoft for 35 years. I know we have had some huge improvements in the last few years in that regard, but we are really still way far behind, and I as a male employee, I know that very well, and I have seen many instances of female super stars de-emphasized in favor of a less-achieving, less-talented male team member. Great topic. B.Sc in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, M.Sc in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, PhD in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, Designing and implementing Software and Hardware Systems, Benchmarking and validating Software and Hardware Systems, Developing innovative solutions and publish papers and patents, Managing teams and keep track of progress, Predicting market trends, identifying market risks, Identifying future opportunities, preparing company roadmap. It sounds fishy. The important thing though is, can you hold things in a room full of other Senior team members. The funding for our project stopped and our vendor team of 28 people have been asked to leave immediately. Eventually you have to make that leap or you arent ever going to get your hands on that other bar. Feedback is not detailed or actionable. How about a thread on the current hiring/moving freeze, or on surviving the New Ice Age? I knew it backwards and forwards, better than anyone else does now or ever will. You may not need them to get from 59->60, but if you're good at them, it'll make your rise much quicker. Say that you will understand if your manager thinks you aren't ready. This is all well and good, but in 9years I've never worked in a group with a Senior IC (Windows, IE, .NET), though some architects. This is a large part of his job - getting his reports to excel and getting them (and by extension, himself) some recognition.All of the above assumes you don't suck, though. IBM got their position by focusing on the customer. Years ago we had a dev on my team who was very high IQ and very driven, but was driving his lead nuts. Microsoft, Go to company page Is there any way to get to 63 w/o leaving and coming back? The estimated additional pay is $257,304 per year. Then follow Mini's advice and you should be all set. clinical research associate entry level jobs near me; new laws for first time violent offenders in louisiana. Establish SD/VSTF branching steering committee and send out monthly report. Thoughts? It doesn't matter what you want - you aren't the one deciding when you get promoted. weeks to find another position within the company, otherwise they are laid off.Think that's known as a "RIF" not a "layoff" butwhat do I know? PROFESSIONAL SKILLS & HIGHLIGHTS OF QUALIFICATIONS Over 20+ years of experience working in large-scale real-time corporate environments Able to communicate concepts and details to clients, development team and testing team Excellent organization and communication skills, both written and verbal: clear and concise Knowledge of computer development software across multiple platforms . And on one total-eclipse-rare occasion, I've been able to be answer the follow-up question: will they reach L65 and say with confidence: Absolutely. When she finally left the company four years ago things improved greatly. I've lucked out a bit by working on a key project for our group and division, although a lot of that was due to my own contributions. If you have an itching to talk about something else, please go here: But Mini, I Want To Talk About Posted by How accurate is this most likely Total Pay range (base + additional) of $396K-$652K/yr? So, for those of you who are in orgs where it's 'easy' to get to L63 or L64 - think about transferring out BEFORE you get too high a level and paint yourself into a corner. >Real HR managers from Microsoft would have just three [sic]s in a post of that length.I hope HR gets cut. I'd like to hear some more experiences from MCS. Today's top 83,000+ Senior Director jobs in United States. Good managers: In general, good managers realize that they need to sell their team's accomplishments. It works like this: Senior (L64,63) - works on tactical efforts, writes code or works on projects autonomously, collaborates with others If so I wish them good luck - as oppose to the US, these regions have laborlaws which makes it very hard for a company with Microsofts margin to lay people off. One thing I learned early is that the manager who says "I fought for you, sorry" is really saying "I'm too weak to make the case." Microsoft Software Engineering Manager salary levels ranges from 63 (SDE Lead) upto 80 (Corporate VP), with 80 (Corporate VP) level earning average salary of $4851k along with $3675k worth of stock options. Few others are long time softies who have been doing average to good job for very long time (3-7 years) without getting any promos. Know Your Worth. Most Directors are 63 and the occasional 64. "The hardest point for me to bear is that I am young, capable of doing so much more, and absolutely dying to do more. I am offered a job at L65 and job offer has a title Director on it! By contrast, most directors don't have their own budgets, but need approvals from their VP to do just about anything. I only wish the internal MyMicrosoft blog had posts that were this valuable and insightful. Then L64 took two years. In particular I am at 64 for quite some time. Here are some things from my perspective.1. Great Post! Given that quite a few Microsofties are going to find themselves locked into their current group for a while, the ability to succeed by swinging on the vines to a new group is going to be rare. also work is good only when it leads to results that typically means team's success. Incompetent People Really Have No Clue: If youre one of the people complaing about how youre not getting promoted because your mgr is incompetent and youre just as good as all those others who got promoted you could be right. I moved around 3 teams before I found one where I really enjoyed the technology and the people, and here I've flourished.So forget all the whining about politics and crap. No managers seems to want to talk to the previous managers for promo stuff and each wants at least 12 mos of time to think to observer. "haven't seen nothing yet" is a fairly common construction. No one else was as good. I've achieved level 65 in a field technical role and it wasn't that hard. Don't waste it. If you can make the argument about the job - and you're in a position of strength, obviously harder now than in years past, you can make the case. You must ask for a promotion when you think you are ready. That's the easy way out. That is a great post Mini. It appears on 6.3% of resumes. To know the real title you have to use headtrax and look for the Standard Title of the position. Or you wait until you get escorted out.I dont know what the final outcome of my situation will be but I expect in the end, I will think it was for the better.Good luck to all in your Microsoft careers, but pay attention to the levels, CSPs and how stack rankings work. Propose a new one and spend a day in implementing it. There are the clear execptions and I think you can see this more on the engineering side than sales and marketing.One other piece of advice - be mindful of the impression you make on your bosses peers and others in senior levels of the organizations. Owning big features, knowledge about code base, ability to help your peers - irrelevant. A Senior Director gets a basic salary package of $190,000, which gets as high . jcr said >Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. You have to strive to get the KEY to the boss's heart and brain. Microsoft The true professional with loads of potential is left to Sulk. You want to test more cases than he does, you want to build something that draws users to what you're doing more than to his.You're never competing with your manager. Could somebody please confirm or deny this. Attack problems within your own areas of influence proactively and generate that same good vibe among peers. In this scenario, the senior director might have more responsibilities and be in charge of a larger part of the organization than a typical director. But it is also clear that there are places at Microsoft where these skills are not required until higher.I have a 62 test somehow make it to dev with mediocre dev skills, social skills limited to indifference or hostility, who managed to delegate most of the hard work to a smart kid hired to work with him and he made it to 63. It operates through the following business segments: Productivity and Business Processes,. Any idea on when is this going to change? Titles are important, and dont let anyone make you believe otherwise. . If you push too hard or threaten to leave, you will be written off immediately. Please help. Why? Can we talk about the recent hiring of a new OSG head, as well as ideas on how to fix online? Senior directors are tenured members of an organization who are considered part of the leadership or executive team, in which they represent their department or division.