By continuing to use this site, you indicate you accept these terms. Classic cars have a 5 or 6 as their second digit [25051, 16686, etc]. Service/Tested $55.00 1 bid $14.06 shipping 1d 6h LIONEL TYPE (KW) TRAINMASTER TRANSFORMER FOR PARTS OR RESTORATION $17.05 4 bids $19.95 shipping 9h 23m I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. The transformer included with your starter set should be adequate to handle a modest expansion of your train set discussed above. If you were to get a ZW 275 you need external short protection. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. As cheap as the 1033 is, if youre going to buy a transformer, you might as well pay a few dollars more to get a 1033. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. Frankly, its hard to go wrong with either of these transformers, especially at todays prices. That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. If you need a device that converts from different voltages so it can power another device, then a transformer will fulfill that role perfectly. Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. A Passenger consist can easily use more power than the engine. I covered the more common ones, but if you have another vintage Lionel transformer of more than 75 watts and its in good condition, theres no reason not to use it. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Get the newest photos, videos, stories, and more from Trains.com brands. Are you running command or conventional? Ryan Kunkle is a nationally recognized professional model train expert and writer with over 25 years of experience. This means that they are not exact 1:48 replicas of the real thing but instead are selectively compressed to negotiate the tight turns of regular Lionel track. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon However, there are times when the solid wire has advantages, particularly when soldering in small locations. --The O Gauge Railroading Primer, by Christopher Ritchie. So, if you want to connect eight landscape lights to an electronic transformer, and the lights use 20 watts each, you would need a 160 watt transformer. What type is your old transformer? Transformer sizing for new systems Mint-in-box examples of vintage Lionel trains are still valuable and will continue to appreciate in value over time, because there are so few of them. Everyone wanted the two-handled, football-shaped, 275-watt powerhouse that was the ZW. Fortunately, in the early 21st century it is easier to expand your starter set than ever before. Most command systems use a constant AC power supply, and trains are controlled by impulses sent through the rails. If you have time, check out the "Coffee Pot". The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. All power supplies will be rated for volts, amps, and watts. That said, if youre uncomfortable fixing a transformer, I wont look down on you for buying one someone else fixed up. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. But Lionel now produces four Track Expansion Sets, which expand this basic loop into something more exciting. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. When running a mixed bag train show with new and old trains of mixed types such as Loinel and MTH which is better? Not wanting to give up, I experimented with an 80 watt modern Lionel transformer and got great results. Smaller layouts (a typical 4 foot by 8 foot being a good example) can usually get by with Number16 since the length of the run from the power supply to the track is never more than a few feet. The house's current is reduced to the required low voltage by Trainmaster Transformers. (Electrical Contractor with dear old Dad for 30 years) Regards Steve. (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. You can't count on a lack of compatibility issues for one Legacy locomotive being definitive for all Legacy locomotives, for example. This comes primarily from the locomotive(s) but also from lights and other accessories. What do I need to do that with? 12V DC to 120V AC 60Hz pure sine inverter. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. Lionel 1033 Transformer Renovation Part I Peter Fenzel 306 subscribers Subscribe 11K views 3 years ago Lionel 1033 Transformer gets cleaned up, a new power cord, a new whistle rectifier. It does run on conventional power but not great and no whistle or bell. If the second digit is 9, it could be either, so be careful when considering one of them. Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. If you are using only LEDs for lighting, you could get away with even less. Many will still run on the track in your starter set, but because they are scale sized, the bodies of these cars may be slightly wider and longer than those in your set. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. "O" Gauge is what Lionel is today, along with "O27". Although all Lionel cars operate on O Gauge track, the bodies of the cars are made in two slightly different sizes. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. There are a few standards when it comes to the color-coding. Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. Wow.thanks for all the advice so far, guys!! Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following, $12.00 per 12 Months (plus tax if applicable). I didnt mention the 1034 above because its easier to find a 1033. They give a great deal of power in a single handled transformer, and if you run trains along with another person, it can be more convenient for you to both have a smaller transformer than for two people to huddle around a larger KW or ZW transformer and share its handles. Get updates and special offers via email from Trains.com brands! The customer will still need a step down transformer to get the 220V to 110V. This is because the demands for power are becoming more than your transformer can handle. Transformer capacity is rated in KVA (kilo-volt-amperes). When you get DCS, keep the blocks and run the 2 sets off 2 Fixed channels out. Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. $2799. Ive talked more about the Lionel RW and the LW as well. Mike, The size of the transformer is dictated by what you want to run, the more you run the more power you will need. Lionels HO Gauge items are back! As an example, look at these two cars closely: While both are gondola cars and run on O Gauge track, note how the car on the left is much longer than the one on the right. There are many advantages in repairing or reconditioning your transformers. Use this index to see additional details about the individual transformers issued by Lionel during the post-war period. Yes, but the train will probably run too fast, depending on the output voltage of the transformer. Sign-up for email today! What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Some people even find it fun. OTTS Founder
He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. If you have a very long run, you may want to consider Number 12 wire. A while back, approximately 2 weeks ago while running two very lengthy loops of fast track an old transformer nearly fried (50 years old) one of my wires that I was running to my Fastrac. This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. Just not quite as much. Our community is FREE to join. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. If you are wiring with a common rail for your blocks, then keeping the common rail the same color all the time while changing the color for the other rail in each block is also an option. A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. At auction, Lionel train sets, pieces, and accessories can sell for a few hundred dollars or for a few thousand dollars, depending on the rarity and condition of the piece. We use a ZW 275 and a KW on this, so 405 watts. But if you already have a 1034 and dont need a whistle button, go ahead and use it. And if the power supply does fail, it is best not to repair it on your own. JavaScript is disabled. Dave, the nice thing about Lionel transformers is you can run them until the bimetallic breaker pops and then you let it cool and you are back in action (after shutting a few things down)! It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. The iconic and legendary 270-watt Lionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. converting a 2-rail freight car to 2-rail with Atlas trucks, My Triple Level Layout -FREEBIE UPDATE- 3/2/23, Successful Open House Upstate (NY) Model Railroaders, FS: Lionel MPC and modern traditional size rolling stock. Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. However, if you begin to add lighted cars, or more than a couple accessories, you may find that your train will not run as fast, or that it will shut off entirely. I've got around 320 ft of track between all of the mainline, sidings, etc and I don't have any problems running my engines anywhere on the layout. These bus wires are often more important than the size of the power supply itself in getting good results. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. We're sorry. How do you choose the right power supply for your model trains? In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. By only supplying power to the trains that need it, you can greatly reduce your needs. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. Ok our layout is 10 x 20 = 200 sq ft x 2 = 400 watts. The Lionel ZW is Lionel's most iconic transformer of the 1950s and 1960s, and perhaps one of its most iconic products, period. Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, WELCOME TO THE FORUM Mike!! The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around theentire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading. Right now I am running 8 motors on one KW [the new one I found] and got the old one for reserve. Transformers are sized by determining the total load required (in amps). Used a 1033 for accessories and lights. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! Best bang for the buck for command are the Lionel 180W Powerhouse bricks IMO. The smallest wire you can work with will be more than sufficient. editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-wattLionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. Like tankist stated.It's only running multiple engines that I run into issues. Turn on the throttle, then short the A and U posts (in the case of Lionel) or variable and base posts (in the case of Flyer) with a screwdriver or a piece of wire for a maximum of five seconds. If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. They run on three rail track. But it is important to take a close look at the cars to make sure that they are a good match for your set. If you add feeders to the track at the farthest point (remember to get the same wire to the same rails) you will not slow down at the farthest point. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. Just not quite as much. The thing that eats current is a lot of light bulbs on the layout. Hello, I'm new to this site, and completely new to toy trains also - so please pardon my ignorance! What size Lionel transformer do I need? Lionel 1033 90 Watt Multi-control Transformer (102) $9.99 1 bid $16.00 shipping 2d 9h Lionel Type Z 250 Watt Transformer & One 167 Whistle Controllers. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. A. Price Received. Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. Lots of good tips for building a layout from two of the most experienced people in the hobby. Like all electronic products, you want to make sure your power supplies are rated by the appropriate body for your country (UL for example). You don't want to try to solder even Number 16 gauge wire right to your rails, however. Lionel Rolling Stock Identification Guide. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Ran 6 motors [MPC's]. Both are lighted. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. Electric Trains make great power supplies, depending on usage, on a DCS controlled layout. Never Enough Room, Time or Money for all the Trains! Trainz carries a variety of books that build upon the information listed above. DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. For many first-time train buyers, once the initial excitement of setting up the train and watching it run has passed, the desire to make it do more usually begins. Some of the variables are obvious, others not so much. I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. Outdoor railroads are, of course, an exception! The two types of cars will connect together just fine, but when side-by-side in a train, they may look a bit odd. These can all have uses for your layout. Adding lights to buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories usually do not require anywhere near the amperage demand of the trains themselves. Regardless of your scale, all model railroad switch machines fall into one of two categories, a slow-motion electric motor or a "twin coil" relay. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. I bet they would be great for running lights and unloading the main transformer. ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. Traditionally, Lionel trains run on AC but there are exceptions. To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! Tales From Harmon Shops, WTB: LIONEL AUTRORACKS SPECIFICALLY SOUTHERN,GRAND TRUNK,BNSF,FERROMEX. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. If you have the proper wire size and a properly-sized circuit breaker, you should not have any problems using the old transformer. is always one of the first questions asked when someone starts to build a model railroad. Scale cars almost always have the number 7 as the second digit in their number [17623, 27241, etc]. The smaller the number, the larger the wire. If you have to ask,your needs are a lot more modest than that. It is important to remember that the real test of the power supply is the load you'll place on it. The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. Most recommend the TPCs over the powermasters The CW 80 will work to begin with. RemembertheVeterans. Of course, if you happen to have enough Number12 wire left over from a home renovation project to install all the buses on your small layout, it won't do any harm. When they were manufactured by The American Flyer Manufacturing Company, they were made in Standard Gauge and a version of "O" gauge. The next evolution in model train control is radio- or bluetooth-controlled trains. The article you suggest would be a daunting task, as you'd have to gather virtually every known locomotive and transformer! I have purchased diodes to put into the older transformers to see if this resolves the issue with newer tenders. Lionel Postwar 1033 Transformer Watch on You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. Safety first. As far as new transformers go, someone else may be able to help more than I can. If you found this post informative or helpful, please share it! Thanks! Fortunately, there is an easy way to tell these cars apart, and the key is the numbers Lionel assigns to them. Enter your e-mail address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail. Its a bargain at that price. For more realistic operation, you need some kind of speed control (throttle) between the 10340 Automatic Reversing Unit and your transformer. With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. properly wired transformer can handle any amount of track. This is where the Lionel transformer comparisons should begin. Sell Your Trains Yourself At Train Shows. The Atlas and Bachmann 80 watt transformers, they are one and the same, can be had for around $75.00. "What size wire should I use?" (using 4 of the 180 watt Lionel bricks) That's 10 amps per channel on all 4 channels. Here at Trainz, we carry all of the products you will need to go from a starter set to a miniature railroad empire. --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. Expanding the basic oval from the set is the quickest way to add more interest to your trains. A: According to Lionel's head of customer service, on the underside of their CW80 transformers, starting in late 2009, the vendor applied a sticker that states "QC50" on it. Serving these devices with their own dedicated supply will not only allow you to supply them with a proper constant voltage, but it will also free your main power supply to handle the load of the train itself. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. I think the RW is a bit better value, but that could just be timing. All Lionel transformer comparisons should include the common 1033, RW, LW, KW and ZW transformers. If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. The CW-80 is a nice little transformer, has accessory output as well,but as you have stated you will outgrow the CW-80 pretty quick. I've had light 'arguments' with fellow hobbyists claiming most of their fellows are predominantly technically - oriented vs. what I would consider is a more liberal artsy approach - any way it's a great balance. Lionel Trains|MTH Train|Lionel Train Sets| HO model Trains| G Scale|Dept 56 Accessories often interact with the train, such as a crossing gate that lowers as the train passes. Wire gauges are coded by their size. Do not connect this product to any other power supply. Dave: That certainly qualifies, don't forget the anti-gun lobbyist with the picket sign's. Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. Mike to the forum. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. That could also be the reason the other transformers don't work. It is not uncommon to see 50-year-old transformers still going strong on a model railroad. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life.". My question is this in order that this doesn't happen again what type of transformer would you recommend? As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. Sell Your Trains Through an Online Auction Service. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. It does not work with O27. The load voltage and load amps must be known to calculate KVA rating. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. Do not use this device if water is present. One rail is positive, the other negative. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. Anyway if it takes me 100 years to finish this thing one thing is for sure I will not have to worry about powering anything and everything. Different wiring projects call for different standards. If the transformer fails, you most likely have a short or overload somewhere in the control circuit. If you want a station for your trains to stop at, there are both station platforms [#24159] as well as full sized stations [#14257].